trying to not post over the past week has been hard ...
but I wanted to see what would happen to my rankings on the web if I didn't post something for several days
more later
Thursday, September 23, 2010
Wednesday, September 15, 2010
Tuesday, September 14, 2010
Sunday, September 12, 2010
Solar energy
so, I'm getting off the electric grid - looking at converting my electric usage to solar
here's what I've found so far:
from http://www.instructables.com/answers/Can-you-run-an-electric-motor-off-solar-panels-and/
Can you run an electric motor off solar panels and in turn produce more electricity than the solar panels can???
I want to know if it is possible to run a one horse power electric motor 120 volt off a solar panel and in turn it runs a generator that would produce enough electricity to make a difference on my bill. The solar calculators say I can only save about $60 a month.... off my 3 to 4 hundred dollar bill. The motors I am talking about is the type used for turning water pumps ... they last for years...
ztevo says:
No.
picture a bicycle, electricty is no different then a biclye chain and a en electric moter is no different then a bicycle wheel.
Draw a normal pedal bicycle, with pedals, draw a chain going from the pedals to the back wheel, now add another back wheel behind the existing back wheel and connect the additional back wheel to the existing back wheel vai a sprocked and an additional bicle chain.
Is this bicycle going to go twice as fast as a normal bicycle because you have an additional back wheel (electric motor) being powered by the original back wheel(solar panel) you are providing power to via pedaling(the suns energy).
Or is this bike going to go slower and be harder to pedal do to the additional friction and weight?
Adding an electric motor behind a solar panel is like adding a third wheel to a bike.
You basically loose 10% of your power every time you convent electrical power to mechanical power and then another 10% when you convert mechanical power pack to electrical power, so adding a motor and generator behind your solar panel would cause you to generate about 80% of the energy you would creat using the solar panel alone.
You should look into the "grid connected inverter" but unless you are getting some major government rebates adding solar will probably cost you more money then it saves you.
PS your thought pattern is one we have all been down when we first got interested in this subject, Just think about electricity the same way you think about water or bicycle chains, they work the same they are just a means to store or transport work, If it won't work with bicycle chains or water wheels it won't work with electricity.
When you look at electricity and wires the same way you look at water in pipes or bicycle chains and wheels, it make it a lot easier to understand. the same laws of physics apply all three.
REPLY.
9Nov 16, 2009. 12:40 PMkelseymh says:
No. Start with conservation of energy, and work through the logic from there. You don't even need to think about actual practical matters like resistance, friction, etc.
REPLY.Nov 16, 2009. 11:22 AMseandogue says:
No. It would violate the fundamental laws of physics.
REPLY.
43Nov 15, 2009. 1:39 PMlemonie says:
Why use the motor at all? What's wrong with the power that comes out of the solar panels?
L
REPLY.Nov 15, 2009. 1:46 PMinquestof (author) says:
according to the info supplied by solar companies... my house is an energy hog and solar alone will not save enough money to make a difference..
REPLY.Nov 16, 2009. 3:59 AMstatic says:
In the event solar can't power your home directly, it's not going to operate a dynamo with sufficient output to power your home There will be loss with using a dynamo. Your money may be better spent reducing your load. In the event your refrigerator is an older one, replacing it may pay for itself fairly quickly. Go to www.energysavers.gov as a starting point, and than use google to find other help. I know older refrigerators are energy hogs. I'm not sold on CFLs yet, be cause I'm getting the promised from them how I use them. I read below you have newer appliance, and your refrigerator is still an energy hog. An investment in a killawatt meter may be a wise one, it well tell you how much the refrigerator is using, and if it's out of line it may need servicing or you will have to examine how your family is using it.. Those economizers read like snake oil to me.REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 1:59 PMsteveastrouk says:
Why is it an energy hog ? Maybe you should invest in some insulation, or window film or something else !
REPLY.Nov 15, 2009. 4:16 PMinquestof (author) says:
I have new dual pain windows ... r14 to r 30 insulation ... I have newer appliances... I do have a hot tub.. and it seems that my refrigerator uses a lot of energy... I have sut down the house and turned each breaker on at a time and can only say we have to many things running,,, edison says the same thing. This is why I was looking in to solar... only problem is that solar panels for that much energy costs around 40 to 50 thousand dollars ,,, i am looking for options... REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 11:47 PMsteveastrouk says:
Wow.
Insulated hot tub lid ? There are economisers that help run refrigerator motors more efficiently. These sorts of thing are more cost effective ATM than solar.
Steve
REPLY.
43Nov 15, 2009. 1:52 PMlemonie says:
You're not going to get any more power by adding motors etc to the output. More panels, less energy consumption perhaps?
Do you have low energy lighting, use a dryer for the washing every time, what's your biggest use of hot-water, how old are the electrical appliances?
L
REPLY.
3Nov 15, 2009. 5:02 PMalex-sharetskiy says:
Just get an inverter a battery, and a battery controller
plug your favorite applience into the inverter. the inverter will run off the battery, and the solar panel will charge the battery
,,btw, inverters change DC into AC,,
REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 1:44 PMsteveastrouk says:
No, but the way to do it is with what's called a grid tied inverter -then you can generate bacl to the grid (but only if your utility allows you to in the USA)
REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 1:25 PMRe-design says:
No. You're going to have friction and resistance loses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and this:
http://www.wikihow.com/Run-Your-House-With-Solar-Power
Unless you have US$20K or more to invest, running a typical household "off grid" is not possible; what many people take for granted as "essential", such as air conditioners and refrigerators, are huge energy-sucking monsters. But if you're willing to pare down to the bare essentials, you can break free from the electrical grid and begin a life of energy independence. Those who are already living out of their cars, vans, or mobile homes have a head start on this, and can put these ideas to use immediately.
1If you have a car, get yourself a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped off whenever the sun is shining. This is a good first step in the right direction; as long as the PV panel is 20 watts or less, there is little danger in over-charging the battery (and the resultant boil-off of the electrolyte) even without a charge controller.
2Find devices that will run directly from 12VDC. For example:
Many "boom boxes" accept 8 cells, which means 12V; you can make battery eliminators and run these directly off your car battery.Linksys WRT54G and WRT54GS routers all accept anywhere from about 5V upwards to 30V or more, and use a size M coaxial connector (5.5mm x 2.1mm), center positive, which has become a de facto standard for 12V low-wattage devices. With one of these, you can extend your range of wifi access significantly, so you don't have to go without WikiHow as you learn energy independence. Many devices and tools that nominally run off 6V to 24V will run off 12V, although it can be very risky to run a 6V device at double its rated voltage. One item that seems to work is the Panasonic RP-SPT70 active speaker system, shown in the battery eliminators article. An 18V device that works off 12V is this Ryobi reciprocating saw.
3 Some 6V items can be used in series to safely run from 12V, for example these $8 LED "tent lamps" from Wal-Mart, using a slight variation of the battery eliminator idea; note that the two pieces of dowel in the middle are connecting the two lamps in series.
For devices that just can't be shoe-horned into a 12V system, you will need an "inverter", which changes 12VDC to 120VAC. Realize in this case you aren't getting something for nothing; the 12V side of the circuit will be drawing over 10 times the current that the AC device uses. Unfortunately, most laptops will need to be run this way unless you purchase a special power adapter, sometimes called an "Auto/Air Adapter", that directly converts 12V to the 18-24V required by the computer.
Start small and build up, but keep an eye on your battery voltage. If it goes below about 10.5V, it's probably not going to come back to full power again. Before this happens, start thinking about getting some deep-cycle storage batteries.
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Old 6V golf cart batteries can be ganged together in pairs to make good deep-cycle 12V batteries.
WarningsYou can ruin devices by plugging them willy-nilly into 12V without looking at the circuit first. If it has any kind of microprocessor, chances are it can't take anything over 5V. And if its electrolytic capacitors aren't rated for at least 12V they will probably lose their "magic smoke".
Danger of fire and/or explosion is minimal but still nothing to be careless about.
It is wise to observe building and electrical codes, not only for your own safety but to avoid fines and/or eviction.
Don't even dream of running a desktop computer unless you have 200W of solar or more. Laptops, especially "netbooks", are far more energy-efficient, and are dropping in price every year.
A typical 12V solar panel can put out 18 to 22 volts peak. Take this into consideration if you're trying to run devices directly from the PV panel without a battery and/or charge controller in the circuit to stabilize the voltage.
Things You'll NeedSolar panel(s)
Batteries, if you intend to run anything after dark. A car battery will work at first, for low wattage or short term, but your first upgrade should be to deep-cycle storage batteries
Solar charge controller, especially if the total output of your panels is 20W or more
Wiring, 10 gauge stranded recommended minimum for small installation
Power inverter, for running AC devices
<a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page"><img border="0" src="http://www.wikihow.com/skins/WikiHow/images/wikihow.png"></a>
<h1 style='margin-bottom: 0px;'><a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Run-Your-House-With-Solar-Power">How to Run Your House With Solar Power</a></h1>
<b><i>from <a href='http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page'>wikiHow - The How to Manual That You Can Edit</a></i></b><br/>
Unless you have US$20K or more to invest, running a typical household "off grid" is not possible; what many people take for granted as "essential", such as air conditioners and refrigerators, are huge energy-sucking monsters. But if you're willing to pare down to the bare essentials, you can break free from the electrical grid and begin a life of energy independence. Those who are already living out of their cars, vans, or mobile homes have a head start on this, and can put these ideas to use immediately.
<a name="Steps"></a><h2> Steps </h2>
<ol><li>If you have a car, get yourself a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped off whenever the sun is shining. This is a good first step in the right direction; as long as the PV panel is 20 watts or less, there is little danger in over-charging the battery (and the resultant boil-off of the electrolyte) even without a charge controller.
</li><li>Find devices that will run directly from 12VDC. For example:
<ul><li>Many "boom boxes" accept 8 cells, which means 12V; you can make <a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">battery eliminators</a> and run these directly off your car battery.
</li><li>Linksys WRT54G and WRT54GS routers all accept anywhere from about 5V upwards to 30V or more, and use a size M coaxial connector (5.5mm x 2.1mm), center positive, which has become a <i>de facto</i> standard for 12V low-wattage devices. With one of these, you can extend your range of wifi access significantly, so you don't have to go without WikiHow as you learn energy independence.
</li><li>Many devices and tools that nominally run off 6V to 24V will run off 12V, although it can be very risky to run a 6V device at double its rated voltage. One item that seems to work is the Panasonic RP-SPT70 active speaker system, shown in the <a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">battery eliminators article</a>. An 18V device that works off 12V is this <a href="/Run-Your-18V-Ryobi-One%2B-Tools-from-12V" class="mw-redirect" title="Run Your 18V Ryobi One+ Tools from 12V">Ryobi reciprocating saw</a>.
</li></ul>
</li><li>Some 6V items can be used in series to safely run from 12V, for example these $8 LED "tent lamps" from Wal-Mart, using a slight variation of the <a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">battery eliminator idea</a>; note that the two pieces of dowel in the middle are connecting the two lamps in series.
</li><li>For devices that just can't be shoe-horned into a 12V system, you will need an "inverter", which changes 12VDC to 120VAC. Realize in this case you aren't getting something for nothing; the 12V side of the circuit will be drawing over 10 times the current that the AC device uses. Unfortunately, most laptops will need to be run this way unless you purchase a special power adapter, sometimes called an "Auto/Air Adapter", that directly converts 12V to the 18-24V required by the computer.
</li></ol>
<a name="Tips"></a><h2> Tips </h2>
<ul><li>Start small and build up, but keep an eye on your battery voltage. If it goes below about 10.5V, it's probably not going to come back to full power again. Before this happens, start thinking about getting some deep-cycle storage batteries.
</li><li>Old 6V golf cart batteries can be ganged together in pairs to make good deep-cycle 12V batteries.
</li></ul>
<a name="Warnings"></a><h2> Warnings </h2>
<ul><li>You can ruin devices by plugging them willy-nilly into 12V without looking at the circuit first. If it has any kind of microprocessor, chances are it can't take anything over 5V. And if its electrolytic capacitors aren't rated for at least 12V they will probably lose their "magic smoke".
</li><li>Danger of fire and/or explosion is minimal but still nothing to be careless about.
</li><li>It is wise to observe building and electrical codes, not only for your own safety but to avoid fines and/or eviction.
</li><li>Don't even dream of running a desktop computer unless you have 200W of solar or more. Laptops, especially "netbooks", are far more energy-efficient, and are dropping in price every year.
</li><li>A typical 12V solar panel can put out 18 to 22 volts peak. Take this into consideration if you're trying to run devices directly from the PV panel without a battery and/or charge controller in the circuit to stabilize the voltage.
</li></ul>
<a name="Things_You.27ll_Need"></a><h2> Things You'll Need </h2>
<ul><li>Solar panel(s)
</li><li>Batteries, if you intend to run anything after dark. A car battery will work at first, for low wattage or short term, but your first upgrade should be to deep-cycle storage batteries
</li><li>Solar charge controller, especially if the total output of your panels is 20W or more
</li><li>Wiring, 10 gauge stranded recommended minimum for small installation
</li><li>Power inverter, for running AC devices
</li></ul>
<a name="Related_wikiHows"></a><h2> Related wikiHows </h2>
<ul><li><a href="/Run-an-18V-Ryobi-Tool-Using-a-Car-Battery" title="Run an 18V Ryobi Tool Using a Car Battery">How to Run an 18V Ryobi Tool Using a Car Battery</a>
</li><li><a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">How to Make Battery Eliminators</a>
</li></ul>
<a name="Sources_and_Citations"></a><h2> Sources and Citations </h2>
<ul><li>This research was made possible, in part, by a land grant from the <a href="http://directory.ic.org/records/?action=view&page=view&record_id=20103" class="external text" title="http://directory.ic.org/records/?action=view&page=view&record_id=20103" rel="n
................ofollow">City of the Sun Foundation</a>, though the specifics of the research were not coordinated nor endorsed by COSF.
</li></ul>
<p>
<i>Article provided by <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page">wikiHow</a>, a wiki how-to manual. Please edit this article and find author credits at the original wikiHow article on <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Run-Your-House-With-Solar-Power">How to Run Your House With Solar Power</a>. All content on wikiHow can be shared under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/">Creative Commons license</a>.</i>
</p>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.gosolarpowerforhomes.com/can-solar-panels-power-my-whole-house-including-acs/
Can Solar Panels Power My Whole House-Including A/Cs?
Hello, I’d really appreciate some input on the subject of solar power panels. I’ve ready a lot and I’ve learned a lot in the recent months by Googl’ing and I realize it’s a big undertaking and in order to generate a small amount of KWH it takes a lot of hardware/installation. I’ve been very interested for some time in this subject, not so much for my needs here in California (where my average monthly electrical bill is roughly $65, even when I run the A/C in my studio from time to time), but more for the time I spend in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where electricity is about 10 times as expensive and where the price per KWH increases every 2 months.
My question is; how realistic would it be to attempt to power a house in Brazil using solar panels?
My question is; how realistic would it be to attempt to power a house in Brazil using solar panels? Of course it would be preferable to completely power the house with solar power, though partial solar power would also be helpful. It is hot in Rio 9 months out of the year (sometimes even all year long), and when it’s hot there is plenty of sun. The cost of electricity is so high in Brazil (roughly 6 times higher than the US…and it goes up every 2 months or so) making it unaffordable to run A/Cs for most people.
1. Is there any way that I could run between 3-5 wall A/C units in a house, or one central A/C unit for the whole house (all day and all night) as well as to run the rest of the house’s appliances (fridge, freezer, TVs, computers, lights, etc) using solar panels? I realize I’m asking a lot and I’m not sure how many KWHs it would require to run all of the above-mentioned, but is there a chance it could be done by only using the roof of the house as the resting area for the panels? If so, how much would it cost in hardware/installation to generate that much electricity?
2. I’ve seen solar panel systems on TV shows that apparently generate DC and then it gets converted to AC and then something else happens so that it can be used directly for the house…and when there is an excess of electricity, it feeds that solar-generated electricity back into the city electricity which turns back your meter. I have also seen systems that have battery arrays that are charged from the solar panels and then the house is run off of the batteries. Which of these 2 methods is best? (In my case, there may be one month where we’re not at the house and one month where we are…could the “off months” be used to store generated electricity?)
3. Does anybody know if it would be better to seek to purchase solar panels in Brazil, or cheaper to import them from another country?
4. Has anyone heard of the SolCool Solar-Powered A/C? http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/07/16/solcools-solar-air-conditioners/ could this be a solution for those of us seeking to power A/Cs from solar panels?
Thank you for taking your time to read this. Looking forward to your answers!
Thank you to all for your good answers and input. Is there any way that I can add answers (to your answers) or further comments to this thread?
Woah…way to much info for a question…so I’m going to write my answer based on JUST the question and not the book of additional information you posted.
My understanding is no, solar power isn’t there yet. However, you could greatly reduce your energy costs by supplementing your home with solar power. How much really depends on where you live. For example, in the arctic Minnesota area where I am from, solar would not be the greatest thing. We get a lot of snow fall in the winter (thus covering the solar panels till they could be cleaned off) and we have some very short days in the winter with a lot of overcast days (thus reducing or eliminating the effectiveness).
I think it would still be a worthwhile investment if you plan to live in the home long enough to allow the solar panels to pay for themselves.
1.by ®PsychologyGuy, on May 5 2009 @ 10:23 pm
Woah…way to much info for a question…so I’m going to write my answer based on JUST the question and not the book of additional information you posted.
My understanding is no, solar power isn’t there yet. However, you could greatly reduce your energy costs by supplementing your home with solar power. How much really depends on where you live. For example, in the arctic Minnesota area where I am from, solar would not be the greatest thing. We get a lot of snow fall in the winter (thus covering the solar panels till they could be cleaned off) and we have some very short days in the winter with a lot of overcast days (thus reducing or eliminating the effectiveness).
I think it would still be a worthwhile investment if you plan to live in the home long enough to allow the solar panels to pay for themselves.
References :
2.by iceman, on May 5 2009 @ 10:46 pm
Ok, Now for the fun!
Powering a House ( How big a House? Sq ft.? ) I’m Guessing Average House—2 Bedroom 2 Bath + living Room + kitchen. 2,000 Sq. Ft.
5 tons of Air Conditioning Required.
60 amps at 230 VAC Just for Air conditioning.
Is Natural Gas Available–for Stove? For Heat? For A Generator?
Wind Power—is it Windy there?
Diesel Generator—? bio-Diesel?
Gasoline Generator—Gasoline Price? Brazil
Powering a House Solely off Solar Panels is Probably NOT Feasible For you. it Would Probably Take 100,000 sq. ft of solar Panels to Supply the Electricity Needed For Supply ing Power to A/c Unit and Everything else.
1) To Live Off the Grid—Power is Generated By Other sources-Solar, Wind or Generator or a Combination of Both or all.
2) Power is then Stored in Battery’s in a Battery Room.
12-60 Battery’s. Depending How Much Power you Want to Store?
3) Battery’s are wired into an inverter and this converts Power To 115V Electricity.
4) Powering the House( Except the Air Conditioning Unit) off Solar and Wind Combined is Easy and Feasible. or Solar alone.
Lights,Radio,Tv,Stereo,Computer,Toaster, —no Problem All Draw Very Little Power Relatively Speaking.
Power Consumption is Measured in Watts—
60 Watt Light Bulb—
750 Watt Hair Drier—
1,200 Watt Toaster—
2,300 Watts Air Conditioner—20 amps x 115 Volt=2,300 Watts
400-750 Watts Average Computer—
Look up Solar Homes—
Living Off the Grid—
Think Living on a Sail Boat or Power Boat at Sea For a Month—How do They Do it??? Wind Generators & Solar Panels Charge Battery’s,Battery’s Store Power For Use,inverter converts it to 115v.
or use Battery Power Directly for 12vdc Refrigeration and Lighting.
Hope this Helps…
http://www.OcRefrigeration.com
References :
Commercial Refrigeration Contractor,Designing and installing Refrigeration Systems on Boats. Freezers and Refrigerators off 12vdc Battery’s Working Well.
Designing & installing Inverter Power systems on Sail Boats and Power Boats to Generate their own Power.
3.by matthias_coleman, on May 5 2009 @ 11:21 pm
Solar panels can get outrageously expensive, but once up they pay for themselves over time (a very long time). If there is a good breeze where you are, you may want to consider, in addition, wind turbines (which can also cost a good chunk of change).
What I would consider is finding out from maybe a local university of the possibilities of geo-thermal heating and cooling. While it is expensive as well, it is also a terrific way to save on power needed to cool a house, letting you use any sort of solar/wind combo for electricity. I would suggest having the solar/wind power batteries to store and run electrice devices, which would include your pumps for geo-thermal.
References :
4.by Carlos Cantu, on May 14 2009 @ 12:58 pm
Another way to store power for AC is to make ICE during sunlight/day and recirculate it inside the home as if it were freon at night (8 centigrades cold water through coils).
5.by Jeff Musgrove, on July 9 2009 @ 8:46 am
What is the avg. cost icluding fed rebates on system(louisiana) , 2300 sq. ft. , not really interested sole usage just for additional help? What kind of savings would I expect.
6.by Jim Johnston, on October 5 2009 @ 8:55 pm
Several great articles and comments. However, way too simple. The inverter needed to change DC current from solar energy also needs to be at 60 +/- Hertz for induction motors i.e. refrigeration, furnace fan, pumps etc. There is also the issue of being in phase with the commercial electrical supplier. Putting electricity back into the system is NOT the same as pouring excess water back into a reserve. Storage batteries, tranfer switches, inverters, phase synchronization are BIG factors. A complete system that can be integrated with existing electrical wiring is not simple. 100% support for solar power but be aware putting solar panels on your roof and connecting a couple of wires to your current electrical distribution panel isn’t realistic.
7.by Darrell Deibel, on February 19 2010 @ 1:33 pm
average house could require 65 panels 200 watt
this could take you oof the grid, but then you will need power storage for cloudy days and night time usage.
do it right the first time and 10-15 yrs later you will have paid for it and running at zero cost.
use your large power consuption items during the day while power is being generated. reduce your usage at night to minimum items. learn to be power smart.
money now is your investment in the future.
if cost of Kw is changing and going up all the time then your investment will pay out sooner.
8.by Jay Guthrie, on March 16 2010 @ 2:00 am
Not really a comment but a question. I have a inground pool at my house.(in Texas where it is alway hot in the summer.) It holds about 20,000 gallons of water. It is a saltwater pool so the pump needs to run about 6-8 hrs a day. I also have a 3 1/2 ton a/c unit (i think. might be 5) that runs a whole lot in the summer time. Being a txu costomer (whos rates are way to high) I was wandering if I could go solar on just these two things, which would knock my elec. bill way down, and what it wiuld probably cost.
9.by joseph, on March 20 2010 @ 6:14 am
comment by darrell deibel is the most realistic of the lot;you have to factor in the cost of roughly 70 commercial pv panels,....the cost of the requisite inverter(preferably a sinewave unit) to handle the ac load,the cost of enough batteries to run for at least 2 days when it might be cloudy the space requirements for that many panels and batteries,the installation costs and periodic maintenance needed for the duration required for the installation to pay for itself. a more practical approach will be to increase the number of fans in your home,install a more modest system initially,and upgrade in stages.
10.by skip, on March 21 2010 @ 5:36 am
my wife and i just built a new house, we also have TXU energy. a few questions and i am vary handy and can build just about anything. we are looking at alternate power sources to reduce and maybe put back power to the grid. looking at wind power it seems that the texas wind pattern or area we would be in the light blue so i am not sure of how wind would pay for itself.
1st we have a 400 amp electrical service to provide us with what we are useing and will need. At 400 amp we would need approx. 46,000 watts, how many panels would this be?
2. we would also need batteries, how many?
3. plus the inverter?
4. plus transfer switchs?
5. what is a phase synchronization?
is this used to put power back into the grid
11.by tovzone, on July 18 2010 @ 7:37 am
thank you sharing, i’m looking an information regarding solar panel.
12.by Solar Powered Desalination, on September 3 2010 @ 9:13 am
I think it is possible to power a house with solar panels because I’ve worked before to a house developer that made a house the sustained all its needs without any help from others. They have installed solar panels in the roofing
......................................................
http://ask.metafilter.com/83304/solar-powered-laptop
solar powered laptop
February 10, 2008 4:42 PM Subscribe
I would like to power my laptop with the sun.
I'd like to work from home while on the road.....
I have an IBM X41 tablet and plan on keeping it for a few more years.
I just purchased a converted Econoline van that is perfect for kiteboarding, which I want to do lots of this summer.
It's also ideal for working, as long as I have a cellular connection for my wireless card and for my phone. My work depends on online access and phone access.
My van has an inverter and a second battery (marine deep cycle). They are both fed energy from the stock alternator. I'd like to use it as little as possible, as I have other energy needs.
My laptop uses a 16V DC input from its power adapter. It says it uses 3.5 A.
I'd like to camp out at kiteboard spots and work from there, however the bottleneck I experience is getting power to my laptop and possibly phone (though I have a long-range phone battery and can purchase another).
I'd like to find a way to power my laptop (actually its battery) while I'm working without draining my van's battery. The ideal solution would be one with a solar panel on the roof directly charging the laptop's battery. I searched the net and didn't find anything that seems suited for this purpose.
Another idea is to wire a voltage converter to the extra battery to step it up from 12V to 16V and bypass the inefficient inverter.
Does anyone have any experience with any of this?
posted by sonicbloom to travel & transportation (19 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
This might not be the answer you are looking for, but check out the Juice Bag. It's a laptop bag with a solar panel built into the flap.
posted by LightMayo at 4:53 PM on February 10, 2008
It would probably help if you could tell us how many hours you plan to work in a row, how long a fully charged battery will run and how long it seems to take you battery to fully charge from a wall outlet.
posted by slavlin at 5:01 PM on February 10, 2008
Unless you only plan to work a short time each night, you are going to need to incorporate the deep cycle battery somehow, because you will otherwise be out of luck if you run down the battery one night and then there isn't much sun the next night. Have you considered taking the battery out of the laptop and running it directly from deep cycle battery? You'll have a far greater storage capacity than in your laptop's battery and you will find it easier to find something to charge the deep cycle battery because there are a lot of solar systems designed to charge 12V batteries. You'll need a step-up voltage converter, but I think you'll need one in any case. If you decide to go this route, check out systems intended for RVs, e.g. like this, though you may need a bigger panel depending on how long you intend to use the laptop daily.
posted by ssg at 5:25 PM on February 10, 2008
Sorry, that should read "there isn't much sun the next day" not night.
posted by ssg at 5:26 PM on February 10, 2008
I've been planning the same thing for a while now. I've looked into a bunch of different approaches that should work, of varying complexity, depending on how much electrical DIY experience you have.
For simplicity sake, and for future-proofing, and caution, I suggest finding an efficient 12V-16V DC-DC converter designed to run your laptop off the car's lighter socket (or just use the one you've got). This is because:
a) 12V is a major standard, and the majority of solar panels and off-the-shelf solutions are designed either to charge 12V lead-acid batteries, or for a 12V system, which means once your laptop looks like a lead-acid battery, it will work with most solar panels as-is, no DIY electronics required.
b) This in turn means you can start with a smaller/cheaper solar panel but are future-proofed for subsequent harder-core solar panel purchases. Or could expand your existing purchase incrementally simply by buying more of the same smaller-cheaper panels and wiring each additional one to the rest in parallel.
c) Solar power voltage is hugely variable (eg clouds passing over sun, angle in sky, etc etc), so let a DC-DC converter deal with that, shielding your laptop from it, rather than subjecting the voltage regulator in your latop to the kind of voltage out-of-range abuse that can eventually ruin it.
d) Universality of 12V/lead-acid is useful - when not powering your laptop, you can now plug the panel into your car and use it to charge the battery, or charge the marine battery. (for best results, an off-the-shelf lead-acid solar charger is a good idea if you splash out on a large enough solar panel to potentially over-charge the car battery)
As for solar panels, check out these. They fold up to the same size as your laptop, and the larger ones, unfolded, can supply as much or more than the max capability of your laptop's power supply. I'm not sure what the difference is (other than price), but there are similar products claiming to be military grade. Perhaps that just means some dudes in Iraq bought some. I don't know.
Note that the advantage of these panels is that they are very lightweight, and fold up to fit in your laptop bag. They are not very efficient. "not very efficient" in solar panels, means only that they take up a larger surface area than a more expensive (and heavier) panel would to produce the same amount of energy. If you are NASA sending a robot to mars, the available surface area is highly limited, so using solar cells of max efficiency is critical, and it is worth the cost of paying through the nose for that extra efficiency. If you are in a park, and can unfold a panel as large as you like, then surface area is not your constraint - funds are, so a lower efficiency panel gives far more power for your dollars. If you want to permanently mount a panel on the roof of your car, then you have a surface area constraint, but it's probably quite a large and unhindering limit - but if cheap panels don't fit, you might need to spend more. But I doubt area-constraint is something you need to worry about,
So I suggest looking for the best watt-per-dollar solar panel you can find, preferably a panel that folds up into a lightweight compact unit, designed for 12V systems.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:27 PM on February 10, 2008
I'd be tempted to cover as much of the top of your van with solar panels as you could afford, and put another battery (or two) into the equation. Solar power will top up the reserve batteries while you are kiteboarding, and will essentially charge sun up to sun down. You can then run an inverter from there straight to your laptop power feed.
To save any losses from conversion of voltages, try and get hold of a direct car charger for the laptop.
Also, if you connect the batteries with a diode pack, when full, your solar batteries will top up your existing batteries (but not drain them), and so allow you greater power flexibility. It is up to you exactly how you charge and distribute power, but storage and peak demand are the hardest things to deal with. Batteries are cheap, solar panels are not. You could even just use one battery for the laptop (a decent sized marine/car one would be ideal) and let that govern your working hours. Once you run out of power, the day is over until the sun has got ahead of the game.
A couple of 12V outlets would let you charge your phone and laptop, too. If all else fails, you can run your engine and charge the working batteries up with the inverter/charger and again work until they are flat.
posted by Brockles at 5:28 PM on February 10, 2008
Some more notes:
My laptop uses a 16V DC input from its power adapter. It says it uses 3.5 A.
That means it maxes out at 56 Watts. In reality, your laptop will normally draw about a third of that. It's maximum real-world power draw will probably approach about 45W draw, this will occur when the CPU is maxed, the HDD and DVD drive is running, while the battery has just started charging from a state of close to full depletion.
Here is a folding panel that supplies 16V DC at up to 3.5 A. You might be tempted to hook it directly to your laptop, and doing so would work, it really is a dead simple solution, but it's not a good solution. It will strain the voltage regulator in your laptop and, over time, likely damage it. The voltage regular is a cheap component to replace, but unless you can replace it yourself, it's NOT cheap to get a technician to take a soldering iron to your laptop's motherboard. The 16V your power supply outputs is regulated - it never varies from 16V, whereas 16V from a solar panel really means 16V plus or minus up to 5V depending on the sunlight. So they're not apples and apples. Use a DC-DC converter. A DC-DC converter for your laptop should accept a fair range of voltage input and voltage variability, yet outputs a nice regulated 16V just like your laptop was designed for.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:43 PM on February 10, 2008
fixed link - 16V 3.5A panel
posted by -harlequin- at 6:03 PM on February 10, 2008
Remember that a solar panel is rated for volts and watts when full sunlight is shining on it. It doesn't put out nearly as much when it's cloudy or the sun has moved and isn't hitting the panel squarely, or (of course) the sun has set. So ditch the idea of hooking the solar panels directly to your laptop.
I like the idea of using solar panels to charge 12 volt deep-cycle batteries, which you use to power your laptop.
posted by exphysicist345 at 6:43 PM on February 10, 2008
I'm still reading all the responses, nice to see all the discussion.
I will be using this about 6 hours a day during daylight hours, and my laptop battery has a 2 hour life. I will be doing this 2-4 days in a row, depending on my workload and the wind.
I would consider connecting this directly to the deep cycle battery, and solar panels + separate battery just for the laptop sounds nice.
posted by sonicbloom at 6:47 PM on February 10, 2008
There really isn't any reason to make yourself a separate panel + battery system for your laptop. Just think what happens when one battery is full and the other isn't full. You don't want to be messing around switching things from one battery to the other. Get however many watts of solar panels you want and however many deep cycle batteries you want and then connect them together with an appropriate charge controller and hook your laptop (via the DC/DC converter) up to that (as well as any other devices you want to use).
posted by ssg at 7:11 PM on February 10, 2008
Oh, and it looks like your laptop doesn't use much power at all. Assuming you have the 4-cell battery and using your two hour figure, you only need about 15W to run it. I'd think that you could probably get by with about 30W worth of solar panels, which would give you enough power to run your laptop even when the sun's intensity is not as high (lightly cloudy days, bad angles, etc.) You would want more solar power and more battery capacity if you absolutely need to use your laptop even if the conditions aren't good.
posted by ssg at 7:17 PM on February 10, 2008
If you're doing this somewhere windy, what about a collapsible wind generator? Then it'd certainly charge your battery when you were off gallivanting on cloudy days, too. I can't find a link for one less than $500 at present, but if you consider what is more likely to be prevalent where you are - wind or sunlight - it may be worth slightly changing tack, or maybe even a hybrid system.
Incidentally, the solar panels on the roof could easily be maximised in efficiency with a little DIY. Make a wooden frame with some sort of foam or carpet on the bottom of it with folding supports and raise it at a slight angle to the sun and park appropriately for maximum exposure. It it were me, I'd make a frame that was bolted to the rook (out of aluminium or steel) and allowed one side or the other to be raised, but I'm not sure how in depth you want to make this. You either want to take the panels off, or have them covered/fold together while driving, though, to prevent damage to the cells.
posted by Brockles at 7:20 PM on February 10, 2008
Two thoughts:
I would get an extra battery with an external charger if you can find one for your model.
or
Get an external battery for your laptop that you can charge off of whatever solar solution you come up with, even while you use your laptop of the existing battery or the deep cycle.
(No experience with either seller, just looking for examples).
posted by shinynewnick at 7:23 PM on February 10, 2008
This guy seems to be using a Xantrex XM1000 inverter and this panel to run two laptops, lights, and the rest of his trailer. I doubt you need all that, but Xantex has a web calculator to help you figure out how many batteries you're going to need.
posted by Orb2069 at 7:35 PM on February 10, 2008
The IBM X41 has a 1900mAh battery at 14.5 volts. The energy stored is 1.9 x 14.5 = 28 watt-hours.
A typical marine battery is 100-Ah at 12 volts. The energy stored is 100 x 12 = 1200 watt-hours.
So the marine battery has about 40 times the energy of your laptop battery. If your laptop battery lasts 2 hours, the marine battery would last about 80 hours. At 6 hours per day that is almost two weeks.
Even if you cut that time in half for conversion losses you should be fine. Forget about the expensive solar panels. Just get a voltage converter and run everything from your marine battery. If you want more time, a second marine battery is a lot cheaper and more reliable than a solar panel. Don't even bother hooking the batteries up to your car's alternator. Just use a trickle charger at home to keep them topped off. Two marine batteries should keep you going for weeks.
posted by JackFlash at 10:32 PM on February 10, 2008
All interesting comments!
JackFlash, in response to your post above, say that I dedicated a deep-cycle battery to the laptop and kept it charged up with a solar 12V battery charger. Would you recommend stepping up the voltage to 16V, or hooking two in series and stepping down?
posted by sonicbloom at 11:34 PM on February 10, 2008
Electrically, stepping up and stepping down are pretty much a wash for efficiency assuming a well-designed DC-DC converter. But for practicality, there are lots of off the shelf devices made exactly for powering a laptop off a 12 volt input from a car battery. For example here. (I have never used this particular device but it just happened to come up first on a search for IBM X41 car battery charger. I'm sure you can find others.)
posted by JackFlash at 11:53 PM on February 10, 2008
Tom's Hardware Guide did a solar powered PC series. Parts 1, 2 and 3. Not exactly what you asked for, but it could probably help out a bit.
posted by electroboy at 6:52 AM on February 11, 2008
« Older Where can I buy a new (or even...
Need guidance to make travel p... Newer »
///////////////////////
here's what I've found so far:
from http://www.instructables.com/answers/Can-you-run-an-electric-motor-off-solar-panels-and/
Can you run an electric motor off solar panels and in turn produce more electricity than the solar panels can???
I want to know if it is possible to run a one horse power electric motor 120 volt off a solar panel and in turn it runs a generator that would produce enough electricity to make a difference on my bill. The solar calculators say I can only save about $60 a month.... off my 3 to 4 hundred dollar bill. The motors I am talking about is the type used for turning water pumps ... they last for years...
ztevo says:
No.
picture a bicycle, electricty is no different then a biclye chain and a en electric moter is no different then a bicycle wheel.
Draw a normal pedal bicycle, with pedals, draw a chain going from the pedals to the back wheel, now add another back wheel behind the existing back wheel and connect the additional back wheel to the existing back wheel vai a sprocked and an additional bicle chain.
Is this bicycle going to go twice as fast as a normal bicycle because you have an additional back wheel (electric motor) being powered by the original back wheel(solar panel) you are providing power to via pedaling(the suns energy).
Or is this bike going to go slower and be harder to pedal do to the additional friction and weight?
Adding an electric motor behind a solar panel is like adding a third wheel to a bike.
You basically loose 10% of your power every time you convent electrical power to mechanical power and then another 10% when you convert mechanical power pack to electrical power, so adding a motor and generator behind your solar panel would cause you to generate about 80% of the energy you would creat using the solar panel alone.
You should look into the "grid connected inverter" but unless you are getting some major government rebates adding solar will probably cost you more money then it saves you.
PS your thought pattern is one we have all been down when we first got interested in this subject, Just think about electricity the same way you think about water or bicycle chains, they work the same they are just a means to store or transport work, If it won't work with bicycle chains or water wheels it won't work with electricity.
When you look at electricity and wires the same way you look at water in pipes or bicycle chains and wheels, it make it a lot easier to understand. the same laws of physics apply all three.
REPLY.
9Nov 16, 2009. 12:40 PMkelseymh says:
No. Start with conservation of energy, and work through the logic from there. You don't even need to think about actual practical matters like resistance, friction, etc.
REPLY.Nov 16, 2009. 11:22 AMseandogue says:
No. It would violate the fundamental laws of physics.
REPLY.
43Nov 15, 2009. 1:39 PMlemonie says:
Why use the motor at all? What's wrong with the power that comes out of the solar panels?
L
REPLY.Nov 15, 2009. 1:46 PMinquestof (author) says:
according to the info supplied by solar companies... my house is an energy hog and solar alone will not save enough money to make a difference..
REPLY.Nov 16, 2009. 3:59 AMstatic says:
In the event solar can't power your home directly, it's not going to operate a dynamo with sufficient output to power your home There will be loss with using a dynamo. Your money may be better spent reducing your load. In the event your refrigerator is an older one, replacing it may pay for itself fairly quickly. Go to www.energysavers.gov as a starting point, and than use google to find other help. I know older refrigerators are energy hogs. I'm not sold on CFLs yet, be cause I'm getting the promised from them how I use them. I read below you have newer appliance, and your refrigerator is still an energy hog. An investment in a killawatt meter may be a wise one, it well tell you how much the refrigerator is using, and if it's out of line it may need servicing or you will have to examine how your family is using it.. Those economizers read like snake oil to me.REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 1:59 PMsteveastrouk says:
Why is it an energy hog ? Maybe you should invest in some insulation, or window film or something else !
REPLY.Nov 15, 2009. 4:16 PMinquestof (author) says:
I have new dual pain windows ... r14 to r 30 insulation ... I have newer appliances... I do have a hot tub.. and it seems that my refrigerator uses a lot of energy... I have sut down the house and turned each breaker on at a time and can only say we have to many things running,,, edison says the same thing. This is why I was looking in to solar... only problem is that solar panels for that much energy costs around 40 to 50 thousand dollars ,,, i am looking for options... REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 11:47 PMsteveastrouk says:
Wow.
Insulated hot tub lid ? There are economisers that help run refrigerator motors more efficiently. These sorts of thing are more cost effective ATM than solar.
Steve
REPLY.
43Nov 15, 2009. 1:52 PMlemonie says:
You're not going to get any more power by adding motors etc to the output. More panels, less energy consumption perhaps?
Do you have low energy lighting, use a dryer for the washing every time, what's your biggest use of hot-water, how old are the electrical appliances?
L
REPLY.
3Nov 15, 2009. 5:02 PMalex-sharetskiy says:
Just get an inverter a battery, and a battery controller
plug your favorite applience into the inverter. the inverter will run off the battery, and the solar panel will charge the battery
,,btw, inverters change DC into AC,,
REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 1:44 PMsteveastrouk says:
No, but the way to do it is with what's called a grid tied inverter -then you can generate bacl to the grid (but only if your utility allows you to in the USA)
REPLY.
6Nov 15, 2009. 1:25 PMRe-design says:
No. You're going to have friction and resistance loses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and this:
http://www.wikihow.com/Run-Your-House-With-Solar-Power
Unless you have US$20K or more to invest, running a typical household "off grid" is not possible; what many people take for granted as "essential", such as air conditioners and refrigerators, are huge energy-sucking monsters. But if you're willing to pare down to the bare essentials, you can break free from the electrical grid and begin a life of energy independence. Those who are already living out of their cars, vans, or mobile homes have a head start on this, and can put these ideas to use immediately.
1If you have a car, get yourself a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped off whenever the sun is shining. This is a good first step in the right direction; as long as the PV panel is 20 watts or less, there is little danger in over-charging the battery (and the resultant boil-off of the electrolyte) even without a charge controller.
2Find devices that will run directly from 12VDC. For example:
Many "boom boxes" accept 8 cells, which means 12V; you can make battery eliminators and run these directly off your car battery.Linksys WRT54G and WRT54GS routers all accept anywhere from about 5V upwards to 30V or more, and use a size M coaxial connector (5.5mm x 2.1mm), center positive, which has become a de facto standard for 12V low-wattage devices. With one of these, you can extend your range of wifi access significantly, so you don't have to go without WikiHow as you learn energy independence. Many devices and tools that nominally run off 6V to 24V will run off 12V, although it can be very risky to run a 6V device at double its rated voltage. One item that seems to work is the Panasonic RP-SPT70 active speaker system, shown in the battery eliminators article. An 18V device that works off 12V is this Ryobi reciprocating saw.
3 Some 6V items can be used in series to safely run from 12V, for example these $8 LED "tent lamps" from Wal-Mart, using a slight variation of the battery eliminator idea; note that the two pieces of dowel in the middle are connecting the two lamps in series.
For devices that just can't be shoe-horned into a 12V system, you will need an "inverter", which changes 12VDC to 120VAC. Realize in this case you aren't getting something for nothing; the 12V side of the circuit will be drawing over 10 times the current that the AC device uses. Unfortunately, most laptops will need to be run this way unless you purchase a special power adapter, sometimes called an "Auto/Air Adapter", that directly converts 12V to the 18-24V required by the computer.
Start small and build up, but keep an eye on your battery voltage. If it goes below about 10.5V, it's probably not going to come back to full power again. Before this happens, start thinking about getting some deep-cycle storage batteries.
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Old 6V golf cart batteries can be ganged together in pairs to make good deep-cycle 12V batteries.
WarningsYou can ruin devices by plugging them willy-nilly into 12V without looking at the circuit first. If it has any kind of microprocessor, chances are it can't take anything over 5V. And if its electrolytic capacitors aren't rated for at least 12V they will probably lose their "magic smoke".
Danger of fire and/or explosion is minimal but still nothing to be careless about.
It is wise to observe building and electrical codes, not only for your own safety but to avoid fines and/or eviction.
Don't even dream of running a desktop computer unless you have 200W of solar or more. Laptops, especially "netbooks", are far more energy-efficient, and are dropping in price every year.
A typical 12V solar panel can put out 18 to 22 volts peak. Take this into consideration if you're trying to run devices directly from the PV panel without a battery and/or charge controller in the circuit to stabilize the voltage.
Things You'll NeedSolar panel(s)
Batteries, if you intend to run anything after dark. A car battery will work at first, for low wattage or short term, but your first upgrade should be to deep-cycle storage batteries
Solar charge controller, especially if the total output of your panels is 20W or more
Wiring, 10 gauge stranded recommended minimum for small installation
Power inverter, for running AC devices
<a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page"><img border="0" src="http://www.wikihow.com/skins/WikiHow/images/wikihow.png"></a>
<h1 style='margin-bottom: 0px;'><a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Run-Your-House-With-Solar-Power">How to Run Your House With Solar Power</a></h1>
<b><i>from <a href='http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page'>wikiHow - The How to Manual That You Can Edit</a></i></b><br/>
Unless you have US$20K or more to invest, running a typical household "off grid" is not possible; what many people take for granted as "essential", such as air conditioners and refrigerators, are huge energy-sucking monsters. But if you're willing to pare down to the bare essentials, you can break free from the electrical grid and begin a life of energy independence. Those who are already living out of their cars, vans, or mobile homes have a head start on this, and can put these ideas to use immediately.
<a name="Steps"></a><h2> Steps </h2>
<ol><li>If you have a car, get yourself a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped off whenever the sun is shining. This is a good first step in the right direction; as long as the PV panel is 20 watts or less, there is little danger in over-charging the battery (and the resultant boil-off of the electrolyte) even without a charge controller.
</li><li>Find devices that will run directly from 12VDC. For example:
<ul><li>Many "boom boxes" accept 8 cells, which means 12V; you can make <a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">battery eliminators</a> and run these directly off your car battery.
</li><li>Linksys WRT54G and WRT54GS routers all accept anywhere from about 5V upwards to 30V or more, and use a size M coaxial connector (5.5mm x 2.1mm), center positive, which has become a <i>de facto</i> standard for 12V low-wattage devices. With one of these, you can extend your range of wifi access significantly, so you don't have to go without WikiHow as you learn energy independence.
</li><li>Many devices and tools that nominally run off 6V to 24V will run off 12V, although it can be very risky to run a 6V device at double its rated voltage. One item that seems to work is the Panasonic RP-SPT70 active speaker system, shown in the <a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">battery eliminators article</a>. An 18V device that works off 12V is this <a href="/Run-Your-18V-Ryobi-One%2B-Tools-from-12V" class="mw-redirect" title="Run Your 18V Ryobi One+ Tools from 12V">Ryobi reciprocating saw</a>.
</li></ul>
</li><li>Some 6V items can be used in series to safely run from 12V, for example these $8 LED "tent lamps" from Wal-Mart, using a slight variation of the <a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">battery eliminator idea</a>; note that the two pieces of dowel in the middle are connecting the two lamps in series.
</li><li>For devices that just can't be shoe-horned into a 12V system, you will need an "inverter", which changes 12VDC to 120VAC. Realize in this case you aren't getting something for nothing; the 12V side of the circuit will be drawing over 10 times the current that the AC device uses. Unfortunately, most laptops will need to be run this way unless you purchase a special power adapter, sometimes called an "Auto/Air Adapter", that directly converts 12V to the 18-24V required by the computer.
</li></ol>
<a name="Tips"></a><h2> Tips </h2>
<ul><li>Start small and build up, but keep an eye on your battery voltage. If it goes below about 10.5V, it's probably not going to come back to full power again. Before this happens, start thinking about getting some deep-cycle storage batteries.
</li><li>Old 6V golf cart batteries can be ganged together in pairs to make good deep-cycle 12V batteries.
</li></ul>
<a name="Warnings"></a><h2> Warnings </h2>
<ul><li>You can ruin devices by plugging them willy-nilly into 12V without looking at the circuit first. If it has any kind of microprocessor, chances are it can't take anything over 5V. And if its electrolytic capacitors aren't rated for at least 12V they will probably lose their "magic smoke".
</li><li>Danger of fire and/or explosion is minimal but still nothing to be careless about.
</li><li>It is wise to observe building and electrical codes, not only for your own safety but to avoid fines and/or eviction.
</li><li>Don't even dream of running a desktop computer unless you have 200W of solar or more. Laptops, especially "netbooks", are far more energy-efficient, and are dropping in price every year.
</li><li>A typical 12V solar panel can put out 18 to 22 volts peak. Take this into consideration if you're trying to run devices directly from the PV panel without a battery and/or charge controller in the circuit to stabilize the voltage.
</li></ul>
<a name="Things_You.27ll_Need"></a><h2> Things You'll Need </h2>
<ul><li>Solar panel(s)
</li><li>Batteries, if you intend to run anything after dark. A car battery will work at first, for low wattage or short term, but your first upgrade should be to deep-cycle storage batteries
</li><li>Solar charge controller, especially if the total output of your panels is 20W or more
</li><li>Wiring, 10 gauge stranded recommended minimum for small installation
</li><li>Power inverter, for running AC devices
</li></ul>
<a name="Related_wikiHows"></a><h2> Related wikiHows </h2>
<ul><li><a href="/Run-an-18V-Ryobi-Tool-Using-a-Car-Battery" title="Run an 18V Ryobi Tool Using a Car Battery">How to Run an 18V Ryobi Tool Using a Car Battery</a>
</li><li><a href="/Make-Battery-Eliminators" title="Make Battery Eliminators">How to Make Battery Eliminators</a>
</li></ul>
<a name="Sources_and_Citations"></a><h2> Sources and Citations </h2>
<ul><li>This research was made possible, in part, by a land grant from the <a href="http://directory.ic.org/records/?action=view&page=view&record_id=20103" class="external text" title="http://directory.ic.org/records/?action=view&page=view&record_id=20103" rel="n
................ofollow">City of the Sun Foundation</a>, though the specifics of the research were not coordinated nor endorsed by COSF.
</li></ul>
<p>
<i>Article provided by <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page">wikiHow</a>, a wiki how-to manual. Please edit this article and find author credits at the original wikiHow article on <a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Run-Your-House-With-Solar-Power">How to Run Your House With Solar Power</a>. All content on wikiHow can be shared under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/">Creative Commons license</a>.</i>
</p>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.gosolarpowerforhomes.com/can-solar-panels-power-my-whole-house-including-acs/
Can Solar Panels Power My Whole House-Including A/Cs?
Hello, I’d really appreciate some input on the subject of solar power panels. I’ve ready a lot and I’ve learned a lot in the recent months by Googl’ing and I realize it’s a big undertaking and in order to generate a small amount of KWH it takes a lot of hardware/installation. I’ve been very interested for some time in this subject, not so much for my needs here in California (where my average monthly electrical bill is roughly $65, even when I run the A/C in my studio from time to time), but more for the time I spend in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where electricity is about 10 times as expensive and where the price per KWH increases every 2 months.
My question is; how realistic would it be to attempt to power a house in Brazil using solar panels?
My question is; how realistic would it be to attempt to power a house in Brazil using solar panels? Of course it would be preferable to completely power the house with solar power, though partial solar power would also be helpful. It is hot in Rio 9 months out of the year (sometimes even all year long), and when it’s hot there is plenty of sun. The cost of electricity is so high in Brazil (roughly 6 times higher than the US…and it goes up every 2 months or so) making it unaffordable to run A/Cs for most people.
1. Is there any way that I could run between 3-5 wall A/C units in a house, or one central A/C unit for the whole house (all day and all night) as well as to run the rest of the house’s appliances (fridge, freezer, TVs, computers, lights, etc) using solar panels? I realize I’m asking a lot and I’m not sure how many KWHs it would require to run all of the above-mentioned, but is there a chance it could be done by only using the roof of the house as the resting area for the panels? If so, how much would it cost in hardware/installation to generate that much electricity?
2. I’ve seen solar panel systems on TV shows that apparently generate DC and then it gets converted to AC and then something else happens so that it can be used directly for the house…and when there is an excess of electricity, it feeds that solar-generated electricity back into the city electricity which turns back your meter. I have also seen systems that have battery arrays that are charged from the solar panels and then the house is run off of the batteries. Which of these 2 methods is best? (In my case, there may be one month where we’re not at the house and one month where we are…could the “off months” be used to store generated electricity?)
3. Does anybody know if it would be better to seek to purchase solar panels in Brazil, or cheaper to import them from another country?
4. Has anyone heard of the SolCool Solar-Powered A/C? http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/07/16/solcools-solar-air-conditioners/ could this be a solution for those of us seeking to power A/Cs from solar panels?
Thank you for taking your time to read this. Looking forward to your answers!
Thank you to all for your good answers and input. Is there any way that I can add answers (to your answers) or further comments to this thread?
Woah…way to much info for a question…so I’m going to write my answer based on JUST the question and not the book of additional information you posted.
My understanding is no, solar power isn’t there yet. However, you could greatly reduce your energy costs by supplementing your home with solar power. How much really depends on where you live. For example, in the arctic Minnesota area where I am from, solar would not be the greatest thing. We get a lot of snow fall in the winter (thus covering the solar panels till they could be cleaned off) and we have some very short days in the winter with a lot of overcast days (thus reducing or eliminating the effectiveness).
I think it would still be a worthwhile investment if you plan to live in the home long enough to allow the solar panels to pay for themselves.
1.by ®PsychologyGuy, on May 5 2009 @ 10:23 pm
Woah…way to much info for a question…so I’m going to write my answer based on JUST the question and not the book of additional information you posted.
My understanding is no, solar power isn’t there yet. However, you could greatly reduce your energy costs by supplementing your home with solar power. How much really depends on where you live. For example, in the arctic Minnesota area where I am from, solar would not be the greatest thing. We get a lot of snow fall in the winter (thus covering the solar panels till they could be cleaned off) and we have some very short days in the winter with a lot of overcast days (thus reducing or eliminating the effectiveness).
I think it would still be a worthwhile investment if you plan to live in the home long enough to allow the solar panels to pay for themselves.
References :
2.by iceman, on May 5 2009 @ 10:46 pm
Ok, Now for the fun!
Powering a House ( How big a House? Sq ft.? ) I’m Guessing Average House—2 Bedroom 2 Bath + living Room + kitchen. 2,000 Sq. Ft.
5 tons of Air Conditioning Required.
60 amps at 230 VAC Just for Air conditioning.
Is Natural Gas Available–for Stove? For Heat? For A Generator?
Wind Power—is it Windy there?
Diesel Generator—? bio-Diesel?
Gasoline Generator—Gasoline Price? Brazil
Powering a House Solely off Solar Panels is Probably NOT Feasible For you. it Would Probably Take 100,000 sq. ft of solar Panels to Supply the Electricity Needed For Supply ing Power to A/c Unit and Everything else.
1) To Live Off the Grid—Power is Generated By Other sources-Solar, Wind or Generator or a Combination of Both or all.
2) Power is then Stored in Battery’s in a Battery Room.
12-60 Battery’s. Depending How Much Power you Want to Store?
3) Battery’s are wired into an inverter and this converts Power To 115V Electricity.
4) Powering the House( Except the Air Conditioning Unit) off Solar and Wind Combined is Easy and Feasible. or Solar alone.
Lights,Radio,Tv,Stereo,Computer,Toaster, —no Problem All Draw Very Little Power Relatively Speaking.
Power Consumption is Measured in Watts—
60 Watt Light Bulb—
750 Watt Hair Drier—
1,200 Watt Toaster—
2,300 Watts Air Conditioner—20 amps x 115 Volt=2,300 Watts
400-750 Watts Average Computer—
Look up Solar Homes—
Living Off the Grid—
Think Living on a Sail Boat or Power Boat at Sea For a Month—How do They Do it??? Wind Generators & Solar Panels Charge Battery’s,Battery’s Store Power For Use,inverter converts it to 115v.
or use Battery Power Directly for 12vdc Refrigeration and Lighting.
Hope this Helps…
http://www.OcRefrigeration.com
References :
Commercial Refrigeration Contractor,Designing and installing Refrigeration Systems on Boats. Freezers and Refrigerators off 12vdc Battery’s Working Well.
Designing & installing Inverter Power systems on Sail Boats and Power Boats to Generate their own Power.
3.by matthias_coleman, on May 5 2009 @ 11:21 pm
Solar panels can get outrageously expensive, but once up they pay for themselves over time (a very long time). If there is a good breeze where you are, you may want to consider, in addition, wind turbines (which can also cost a good chunk of change).
What I would consider is finding out from maybe a local university of the possibilities of geo-thermal heating and cooling. While it is expensive as well, it is also a terrific way to save on power needed to cool a house, letting you use any sort of solar/wind combo for electricity. I would suggest having the solar/wind power batteries to store and run electrice devices, which would include your pumps for geo-thermal.
References :
4.by Carlos Cantu, on May 14 2009 @ 12:58 pm
Another way to store power for AC is to make ICE during sunlight/day and recirculate it inside the home as if it were freon at night (8 centigrades cold water through coils).
5.by Jeff Musgrove, on July 9 2009 @ 8:46 am
What is the avg. cost icluding fed rebates on system(louisiana) , 2300 sq. ft. , not really interested sole usage just for additional help? What kind of savings would I expect.
6.by Jim Johnston, on October 5 2009 @ 8:55 pm
Several great articles and comments. However, way too simple. The inverter needed to change DC current from solar energy also needs to be at 60 +/- Hertz for induction motors i.e. refrigeration, furnace fan, pumps etc. There is also the issue of being in phase with the commercial electrical supplier. Putting electricity back into the system is NOT the same as pouring excess water back into a reserve. Storage batteries, tranfer switches, inverters, phase synchronization are BIG factors. A complete system that can be integrated with existing electrical wiring is not simple. 100% support for solar power but be aware putting solar panels on your roof and connecting a couple of wires to your current electrical distribution panel isn’t realistic.
7.by Darrell Deibel, on February 19 2010 @ 1:33 pm
average house could require 65 panels 200 watt
this could take you oof the grid, but then you will need power storage for cloudy days and night time usage.
do it right the first time and 10-15 yrs later you will have paid for it and running at zero cost.
use your large power consuption items during the day while power is being generated. reduce your usage at night to minimum items. learn to be power smart.
money now is your investment in the future.
if cost of Kw is changing and going up all the time then your investment will pay out sooner.
8.by Jay Guthrie, on March 16 2010 @ 2:00 am
Not really a comment but a question. I have a inground pool at my house.(in Texas where it is alway hot in the summer.) It holds about 20,000 gallons of water. It is a saltwater pool so the pump needs to run about 6-8 hrs a day. I also have a 3 1/2 ton a/c unit (i think. might be 5) that runs a whole lot in the summer time. Being a txu costomer (whos rates are way to high) I was wandering if I could go solar on just these two things, which would knock my elec. bill way down, and what it wiuld probably cost.
9.by joseph, on March 20 2010 @ 6:14 am
comment by darrell deibel is the most realistic of the lot;you have to factor in the cost of roughly 70 commercial pv panels,....the cost of the requisite inverter(preferably a sinewave unit) to handle the ac load,the cost of enough batteries to run for at least 2 days when it might be cloudy the space requirements for that many panels and batteries,the installation costs and periodic maintenance needed for the duration required for the installation to pay for itself. a more practical approach will be to increase the number of fans in your home,install a more modest system initially,and upgrade in stages.
10.by skip, on March 21 2010 @ 5:36 am
my wife and i just built a new house, we also have TXU energy. a few questions and i am vary handy and can build just about anything. we are looking at alternate power sources to reduce and maybe put back power to the grid. looking at wind power it seems that the texas wind pattern or area we would be in the light blue so i am not sure of how wind would pay for itself.
1st we have a 400 amp electrical service to provide us with what we are useing and will need. At 400 amp we would need approx. 46,000 watts, how many panels would this be?
2. we would also need batteries, how many?
3. plus the inverter?
4. plus transfer switchs?
5. what is a phase synchronization?
is this used to put power back into the grid
11.by tovzone, on July 18 2010 @ 7:37 am
thank you sharing, i’m looking an information regarding solar panel.
12.by Solar Powered Desalination, on September 3 2010 @ 9:13 am
I think it is possible to power a house with solar panels because I’ve worked before to a house developer that made a house the sustained all its needs without any help from others. They have installed solar panels in the roofing
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http://ask.metafilter.com/83304/solar-powered-laptop
solar powered laptop
February 10, 2008 4:42 PM Subscribe
I would like to power my laptop with the sun.
I'd like to work from home while on the road.....
I have an IBM X41 tablet and plan on keeping it for a few more years.
I just purchased a converted Econoline van that is perfect for kiteboarding, which I want to do lots of this summer.
It's also ideal for working, as long as I have a cellular connection for my wireless card and for my phone. My work depends on online access and phone access.
My van has an inverter and a second battery (marine deep cycle). They are both fed energy from the stock alternator. I'd like to use it as little as possible, as I have other energy needs.
My laptop uses a 16V DC input from its power adapter. It says it uses 3.5 A.
I'd like to camp out at kiteboard spots and work from there, however the bottleneck I experience is getting power to my laptop and possibly phone (though I have a long-range phone battery and can purchase another).
I'd like to find a way to power my laptop (actually its battery) while I'm working without draining my van's battery. The ideal solution would be one with a solar panel on the roof directly charging the laptop's battery. I searched the net and didn't find anything that seems suited for this purpose.
Another idea is to wire a voltage converter to the extra battery to step it up from 12V to 16V and bypass the inefficient inverter.
Does anyone have any experience with any of this?
posted by sonicbloom to travel & transportation (19 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
This might not be the answer you are looking for, but check out the Juice Bag. It's a laptop bag with a solar panel built into the flap.
posted by LightMayo at 4:53 PM on February 10, 2008
It would probably help if you could tell us how many hours you plan to work in a row, how long a fully charged battery will run and how long it seems to take you battery to fully charge from a wall outlet.
posted by slavlin at 5:01 PM on February 10, 2008
Unless you only plan to work a short time each night, you are going to need to incorporate the deep cycle battery somehow, because you will otherwise be out of luck if you run down the battery one night and then there isn't much sun the next night. Have you considered taking the battery out of the laptop and running it directly from deep cycle battery? You'll have a far greater storage capacity than in your laptop's battery and you will find it easier to find something to charge the deep cycle battery because there are a lot of solar systems designed to charge 12V batteries. You'll need a step-up voltage converter, but I think you'll need one in any case. If you decide to go this route, check out systems intended for RVs, e.g. like this, though you may need a bigger panel depending on how long you intend to use the laptop daily.
posted by ssg at 5:25 PM on February 10, 2008
Sorry, that should read "there isn't much sun the next day" not night.
posted by ssg at 5:26 PM on February 10, 2008
I've been planning the same thing for a while now. I've looked into a bunch of different approaches that should work, of varying complexity, depending on how much electrical DIY experience you have.
For simplicity sake, and for future-proofing, and caution, I suggest finding an efficient 12V-16V DC-DC converter designed to run your laptop off the car's lighter socket (or just use the one you've got). This is because:
a) 12V is a major standard, and the majority of solar panels and off-the-shelf solutions are designed either to charge 12V lead-acid batteries, or for a 12V system, which means once your laptop looks like a lead-acid battery, it will work with most solar panels as-is, no DIY electronics required.
b) This in turn means you can start with a smaller/cheaper solar panel but are future-proofed for subsequent harder-core solar panel purchases. Or could expand your existing purchase incrementally simply by buying more of the same smaller-cheaper panels and wiring each additional one to the rest in parallel.
c) Solar power voltage is hugely variable (eg clouds passing over sun, angle in sky, etc etc), so let a DC-DC converter deal with that, shielding your laptop from it, rather than subjecting the voltage regulator in your latop to the kind of voltage out-of-range abuse that can eventually ruin it.
d) Universality of 12V/lead-acid is useful - when not powering your laptop, you can now plug the panel into your car and use it to charge the battery, or charge the marine battery. (for best results, an off-the-shelf lead-acid solar charger is a good idea if you splash out on a large enough solar panel to potentially over-charge the car battery)
As for solar panels, check out these. They fold up to the same size as your laptop, and the larger ones, unfolded, can supply as much or more than the max capability of your laptop's power supply. I'm not sure what the difference is (other than price), but there are similar products claiming to be military grade. Perhaps that just means some dudes in Iraq bought some. I don't know.
Note that the advantage of these panels is that they are very lightweight, and fold up to fit in your laptop bag. They are not very efficient. "not very efficient" in solar panels, means only that they take up a larger surface area than a more expensive (and heavier) panel would to produce the same amount of energy. If you are NASA sending a robot to mars, the available surface area is highly limited, so using solar cells of max efficiency is critical, and it is worth the cost of paying through the nose for that extra efficiency. If you are in a park, and can unfold a panel as large as you like, then surface area is not your constraint - funds are, so a lower efficiency panel gives far more power for your dollars. If you want to permanently mount a panel on the roof of your car, then you have a surface area constraint, but it's probably quite a large and unhindering limit - but if cheap panels don't fit, you might need to spend more. But I doubt area-constraint is something you need to worry about,
So I suggest looking for the best watt-per-dollar solar panel you can find, preferably a panel that folds up into a lightweight compact unit, designed for 12V systems.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:27 PM on February 10, 2008
I'd be tempted to cover as much of the top of your van with solar panels as you could afford, and put another battery (or two) into the equation. Solar power will top up the reserve batteries while you are kiteboarding, and will essentially charge sun up to sun down. You can then run an inverter from there straight to your laptop power feed.
To save any losses from conversion of voltages, try and get hold of a direct car charger for the laptop.
Also, if you connect the batteries with a diode pack, when full, your solar batteries will top up your existing batteries (but not drain them), and so allow you greater power flexibility. It is up to you exactly how you charge and distribute power, but storage and peak demand are the hardest things to deal with. Batteries are cheap, solar panels are not. You could even just use one battery for the laptop (a decent sized marine/car one would be ideal) and let that govern your working hours. Once you run out of power, the day is over until the sun has got ahead of the game.
A couple of 12V outlets would let you charge your phone and laptop, too. If all else fails, you can run your engine and charge the working batteries up with the inverter/charger and again work until they are flat.
posted by Brockles at 5:28 PM on February 10, 2008
Some more notes:
My laptop uses a 16V DC input from its power adapter. It says it uses 3.5 A.
That means it maxes out at 56 Watts. In reality, your laptop will normally draw about a third of that. It's maximum real-world power draw will probably approach about 45W draw, this will occur when the CPU is maxed, the HDD and DVD drive is running, while the battery has just started charging from a state of close to full depletion.
Here is a folding panel that supplies 16V DC at up to 3.5 A. You might be tempted to hook it directly to your laptop, and doing so would work, it really is a dead simple solution, but it's not a good solution. It will strain the voltage regulator in your laptop and, over time, likely damage it. The voltage regular is a cheap component to replace, but unless you can replace it yourself, it's NOT cheap to get a technician to take a soldering iron to your laptop's motherboard. The 16V your power supply outputs is regulated - it never varies from 16V, whereas 16V from a solar panel really means 16V plus or minus up to 5V depending on the sunlight. So they're not apples and apples. Use a DC-DC converter. A DC-DC converter for your laptop should accept a fair range of voltage input and voltage variability, yet outputs a nice regulated 16V just like your laptop was designed for.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:43 PM on February 10, 2008
fixed link - 16V 3.5A panel
posted by -harlequin- at 6:03 PM on February 10, 2008
Remember that a solar panel is rated for volts and watts when full sunlight is shining on it. It doesn't put out nearly as much when it's cloudy or the sun has moved and isn't hitting the panel squarely, or (of course) the sun has set. So ditch the idea of hooking the solar panels directly to your laptop.
I like the idea of using solar panels to charge 12 volt deep-cycle batteries, which you use to power your laptop.
posted by exphysicist345 at 6:43 PM on February 10, 2008
I'm still reading all the responses, nice to see all the discussion.
I will be using this about 6 hours a day during daylight hours, and my laptop battery has a 2 hour life. I will be doing this 2-4 days in a row, depending on my workload and the wind.
I would consider connecting this directly to the deep cycle battery, and solar panels + separate battery just for the laptop sounds nice.
posted by sonicbloom at 6:47 PM on February 10, 2008
There really isn't any reason to make yourself a separate panel + battery system for your laptop. Just think what happens when one battery is full and the other isn't full. You don't want to be messing around switching things from one battery to the other. Get however many watts of solar panels you want and however many deep cycle batteries you want and then connect them together with an appropriate charge controller and hook your laptop (via the DC/DC converter) up to that (as well as any other devices you want to use).
posted by ssg at 7:11 PM on February 10, 2008
Oh, and it looks like your laptop doesn't use much power at all. Assuming you have the 4-cell battery and using your two hour figure, you only need about 15W to run it. I'd think that you could probably get by with about 30W worth of solar panels, which would give you enough power to run your laptop even when the sun's intensity is not as high (lightly cloudy days, bad angles, etc.) You would want more solar power and more battery capacity if you absolutely need to use your laptop even if the conditions aren't good.
posted by ssg at 7:17 PM on February 10, 2008
If you're doing this somewhere windy, what about a collapsible wind generator? Then it'd certainly charge your battery when you were off gallivanting on cloudy days, too. I can't find a link for one less than $500 at present, but if you consider what is more likely to be prevalent where you are - wind or sunlight - it may be worth slightly changing tack, or maybe even a hybrid system.
Incidentally, the solar panels on the roof could easily be maximised in efficiency with a little DIY. Make a wooden frame with some sort of foam or carpet on the bottom of it with folding supports and raise it at a slight angle to the sun and park appropriately for maximum exposure. It it were me, I'd make a frame that was bolted to the rook (out of aluminium or steel) and allowed one side or the other to be raised, but I'm not sure how in depth you want to make this. You either want to take the panels off, or have them covered/fold together while driving, though, to prevent damage to the cells.
posted by Brockles at 7:20 PM on February 10, 2008
Two thoughts:
I would get an extra battery with an external charger if you can find one for your model.
or
Get an external battery for your laptop that you can charge off of whatever solar solution you come up with, even while you use your laptop of the existing battery or the deep cycle.
(No experience with either seller, just looking for examples).
posted by shinynewnick at 7:23 PM on February 10, 2008
This guy seems to be using a Xantrex XM1000 inverter and this panel to run two laptops, lights, and the rest of his trailer. I doubt you need all that, but Xantex has a web calculator to help you figure out how many batteries you're going to need.
posted by Orb2069 at 7:35 PM on February 10, 2008
The IBM X41 has a 1900mAh battery at 14.5 volts. The energy stored is 1.9 x 14.5 = 28 watt-hours.
A typical marine battery is 100-Ah at 12 volts. The energy stored is 100 x 12 = 1200 watt-hours.
So the marine battery has about 40 times the energy of your laptop battery. If your laptop battery lasts 2 hours, the marine battery would last about 80 hours. At 6 hours per day that is almost two weeks.
Even if you cut that time in half for conversion losses you should be fine. Forget about the expensive solar panels. Just get a voltage converter and run everything from your marine battery. If you want more time, a second marine battery is a lot cheaper and more reliable than a solar panel. Don't even bother hooking the batteries up to your car's alternator. Just use a trickle charger at home to keep them topped off. Two marine batteries should keep you going for weeks.
posted by JackFlash at 10:32 PM on February 10, 2008
All interesting comments!
JackFlash, in response to your post above, say that I dedicated a deep-cycle battery to the laptop and kept it charged up with a solar 12V battery charger. Would you recommend stepping up the voltage to 16V, or hooking two in series and stepping down?
posted by sonicbloom at 11:34 PM on February 10, 2008
Electrically, stepping up and stepping down are pretty much a wash for efficiency assuming a well-designed DC-DC converter. But for practicality, there are lots of off the shelf devices made exactly for powering a laptop off a 12 volt input from a car battery. For example here. (I have never used this particular device but it just happened to come up first on a search for IBM X41 car battery charger. I'm sure you can find others.)
posted by JackFlash at 11:53 PM on February 10, 2008
Tom's Hardware Guide did a solar powered PC series. Parts 1, 2 and 3. Not exactly what you asked for, but it could probably help out a bit.
posted by electroboy at 6:52 AM on February 11, 2008
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